And the one thing that unites both of those worlds in this research called the pagan continuity hypothesis, the one thing we can bet on is the sacred language of Greek. According to Muraresku, this work, BOOK REVIEW which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? So perhaps there's even more evidence. Tim Ferriss Show #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Psychedelics, and More. And all along, I invite you all to pose questions to Brian in the Q&A function. Wise not least because it is summer there, as he reminds me every time we have a Zoom meeting, which has been quite often in these past several months. But they charge Marcus specifically, not with a psychedelic Eucharist, but the use of a love potion. And I think sites like this have tended to be neglected in scholarship, or published in languages like Catalan, maybe Ukrainian, where it just doesn't filter through the academic community. So Gobekli Tepe, for those who don't know, is this site in southern Turkey on the border with Syria. But what I see are potential and possibilities and things worthy of discussions like this. So in the mountains and forests from Greece to Rome, including the Holy Land and Galilee. And we know the mysteries were there. Not because it was brand new data. Well, the reason I mention Hippolytus and Marcus and focus on that in my evidence is because there's evidence of the Valentinians, who influenced Marcus, in and around Rome. Now, that date is obviously very suggestive because that's precisely the time the Christians were establishing a beachhead in Rome. The idea of the truth shall set you free, right, [SPEAKING GREEK], in 8:32. PDF Thesis-The Religion of Constantine I - University Of Ottawa The continuity hypothesis of dreams suggests that the content of dreams are largely continuous with waking concepts and concerns of the dreamer. I'm sure he knows this well, by this point. The answer seems to be connected to psychedelic drugs. Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. In the same place in and around Pompeii, this is where Christianity is really finding its roots. Read more about The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku Making Sense by Sam Harris Research inside the Church of Saint Faustina and Liberata Fig 1. If beer was there that long ago, what kind of beer was it? For me, that's a question, and it will yield more questions. When there's a clear tonal distinction, and an existing precedent for Christian modification to Pagan works, I don't see why you're resistant to the idea, and I'm curious . Now, let's get started, Brian. So again, that's February 22. And I don't know what that looks like. Now I understand and I appreciate the pharmaceutical industry's ability to distribute this as medicine for those who are looking for alternatives, alternative treatments for depression and anxiety and PTSD and addiction and end of life distress. All episodes of The Tim Ferriss Show - Chartable And keep in mind that we'll drop down into any one of these points more deeply. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. But it was not far from a well-known colony in [INAUDIBLE] that was founded by Phocians. CHARLES STANG: OK. And that's a question equally for ancient historians and for contemporary seekers and/or good Catholics. So Dionysus is not the god of alcohol. I'm not. And we know from the record that [SPEAKING GREEK] is described as being so crowded with gods that they were easier to find than men. Like in Israel. Biblical Entheogens: a Speculative Hypothesis - ResearchGate But the next event in this series will happen sooner than that. Newsweek calls him 'the world's best human guinea pig,' and The New York Times calls him 'a cross between Jack Welch and a Buddhist monk.' In this show, he deconstructs world-class performers from eclectic areas (investing, chess, pro sports, etc . The Tim Ferriss Show. You're not confident that the pope is suddenly going to issue an encyclical. So don't feel like you have to go into great depth at this point. So, you know, I specifically wanted to avoid heavily relying on the 52 books of the [INAUDIBLE] corpus or heavily relying too much on the Gospel of Mary Magdalene and the evidence that's come from Egypt. They did not. The Immortality Key has its shortcomings. Now, Brian managed to write this book while holding down a full time practice in international law based in Washington DC. CHARLES STANG: All right. It draws attention to this material. And that kind of invisible religion with no name, although brutally suppressed, managed to survive in Europe for many centuries and could potentially be revived today. And I think that that's the real question here. I've no doubt that Brian has unearthed and collected a remarkable body of evidence, but evidence of what, exactly? And that that's how I-- and by not speculating more than we can about the mystical supper, if we follow the hypothesis that this is a big if for some early communities of Greek speakers, this is how I'm finding common ground with priests both Catholic and Orthodox and Protestants. Liked by Samuel Zuschlag. And so I don't know what a really authentic, a really historic-looking ritual that is equal parts sacred, but also, again, medically sound, scientifically rigorous, would look like. That's the big question. And I want to say to those who are still assembled here that I'm terribly sorry that we can't get to all your questions. And how do we-- when the pharmaceutical industry and when these retreat centers begin to open and begin to proliferate, how do we make this sacred? This is going to be a question that's back to the ancient world. And there you also found mortars that were tested and also tested positive for evidence of brewing. Mona Sobhani, PhD Retweeted. CHARLES STANG: All right. And at the same time, when I see a thirst, especially in young people, for real experience, and I see so many Catholics who do not believe in transubstantiation, obviously, what comes to my mind is how, if at all, can psychedelics enhance faith or reinvent Christianity. [2] CHARLES STANG: I have one more question about the pre-Christian story, and that has to do with that the other mystery religion you give such attention to. Now is there any evidence for psychedelic use in ancient Egypt, and if not, do you have any theory as to why that's silent? The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More (#646) - The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss 3 Annual "Best of" Apple Podcasts 900+ Million episodes downloaded This time around, we have a very special edition featuring Dr. Mark Plotkin and Brian C . First, the continuity of the offices must be seen in light of the change of institutional charges; they had lost their religious connotations and had become secular. CHARLES STANG: OK. You mentioned, too, early churchmen, experts in heresies by the name of Irenaeus of Lyons and Hippolytus of Rome. And so the big hunt for me was trying to find some of those psychedelic bits. All rights reserved. What's different about the Dionysian mysteries, and what evidence, direct or indirect, do we have about the wine of Dionysus being psychedelic? . So I'm trying to build the case-- and for some reason in my research, it kept coming back to Italy and Rome, which is why I focus on Hippolytus. Now are there any other questions you wish to propose or push or-- I don't know, to push back against any of the criticisms or questions I've leveled? 48:01 Brian's psychedelic experiences . You see an altar of Pentelic marble that could only have come from the Mount Pentelicus quarry in mainland Greece. That's, just absurd. Although she's open to testing, there was nothing there. So I want to propose that we stage this play in two acts. BRIAN MURARESKU: Good one. Because what tends to happen in those experiences is a death and rebirth. Brian's thesis, that of the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, was explored by Alexander Hislop in his "The Two Babylons", 1853, as a Protestant treatise in the spirit of Martin Luther as Alexander too interjects the Elusinian Mysteries. Did the ancient Greeks use drugs to find God? The Tim Ferriss Show | iHeart Psychedelics are a lens to investigate this stuff. And I've listened to the volunteers who've gone through these experiences. That they were what you call extreme beverages. So if you don't think that you are literally consuming divine blood, what is the point of religion? And I think it does hearken back to a genuinely ancient Greek principle, which is that only by fully experiencing some kind of death, a death that feels real, where you, or at least the you you used to identify with, actually slips away, dissolves. And I think we're getting there. Are they rolling their eyes, or are you getting sort of secretive knowing nods of agreement? But in Pompeii, for example, there's the villa of the mysteries, one of these really breathtaking finds that also survived the ravage of Mount Vesuvius. [texts-excerpt] penalty for cutting mangroves in floridaFREE EstimateFREE Estimate Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact." And part of me really wants to put all these pieces together before I dive in. Jerry Brown wrote a good review that should be read to put the book in its proper place. CHARLES STANG: OK. Which turns out, it may be they were. And I'm happy to see we have over 800 people present for this conversation. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. So at the very-- after the first half of the book is over, there's an epilogue, and I say, OK, here's the evidence. So here's a question for you. CHARLES STANG: We've really read Jesus through the lens of his Greek inheritors. Joe Campbell puts it best that what we're after is an experience of being alive. We call it ego dissolution, things of that nature. And I describe that as somehow finding that key to immortality. It was one of the early write-ups of the psilocybin studies coming out of Johns Hopkins. There's no mistake in her mind that it was Greek. Psychedelics Weekly - Prince Harry and Psychedelics, Proposed And to be quite honest, I'd never studied the ancient Greeks in Spain. Amazon.com: Customer reviews: The Immortality Key: The Secret History Now, it's just an early indication and there's more testing to be done. Here's your Western Eleusis. What was discovered, as far as I can tell, from your treatment of it, is essentially an ancient pharmacy in this house. So it wasn't just a random place to find one of these spiked wines. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. The same Rome that circumstantially shows up, and south of Rome, where Constantine would build his basilicas in Naples and Capua later on. If they've been doing this, as you suggest, for 2,000 years, nearly, what makes you think that a few ancient historians are going to turn that aircraft carrier around? The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in All right, so now, let's follow up with Dionysus, but let's see here. In fact, he found beer, wine, and mead all mixed together in a couple of different places. But it's not an ingested psychedelic. But I don't understand how that provides any significant link to paleo-Christian practice. he goes out on a limb and says that black nightshade actually causes [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which is not unpleasant visions, i.e. And it was their claim that when the hymn to Demeter, one of these ancient records that records, in some form, the proto-recipe for this kykeon potion, which I call like a primitive beer, in the hymn to Demeter, they talk about ingredients like barley, water, and mint. So why do you think psychedelics are so significant that they might usher in a new Reformation? So the basic point being, as far as we can tell, beer and wine are routinely mixed with things that we don't do today. So psychedelics or not, I think it's the cultivation of that experience, which is the actual key. Amongst all the mystery religions, Eleusis survives. Wonderful, well, thank you. BRIAN MURARESKU: I don't-- I don't claim too heavily. To this day I remain a psychedelic virgin quite proudly, and I spent the past 12 years, ever since that moment in 2007, researching what Houston Smith, perhaps one of the most influential religious historians of the 20th century, would call the best kept secret in history. That's all just fancy wordplay. And she happened to find it on psilocybin. General Stanley McChrystal Mastering Risk: A User's Guide | Brought to you by Kettle & Fire high quality, tasty, and conveniently packaged bone broths; Eight Sleep. Which, again, what I see are small groups of people getting together to commune with the dead. And another: in defending the pagan continuity hypothesis, Muraresku presumes a somewhat non-Jewish, pagan-like Jesus, while ignoring the growing body of psychedelic literature, including works by . A combination of psychoactive plants, including opium, cannabis, and nightshade, along with the remains of reptiles and amphibians all steeped in wine, like a real witch's brew, uncovered in this house outside of Pompeii. Video: Psychedelics: The Ancient Religion with No Name? His aim when he set out on this journey 12 years ago was to assess the validity of a rather old, but largely discredited hypothesis, namely, that some of the religions of the ancient Mediterranean, perhaps including Christianity, used a psychedelic sacrament to induce mystical experiences at the border of life and death, and that these psychedelic rituals were just the tip of the iceberg, signs of an even more ancient and pervasive religious practice going back many thousands of years. Like the wedding at Cana, which my synopsis of that event is a drunkard getting a bunch of drunk people even more drunk. First I'll give the floor to Brian to walk us into this remarkable book of his and the years of hard work that went into it, what drove him to do this. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More from The Tim Ferriss Show on Podchaser, aired Wednesday, 28th December 2022. BRIAN MURARESKU: But you're spot on. So this whole water to wine thing was out there. What, if any, was the relationship between this Greek sanctuary-- a very Greek sanctuary, by the way-- in Catalonia, to the mysteries of Eleusis? BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. And Hofmann famously discovers-- or synthesizes LSD from ergot in 1938. And there are legitimate scholars out there who say, because John wanted to paint Jesus in the light of Dionysus, present him as the second coming of this pagan God. Others would argue that they are perfectly legal sacraments, at least in the Native American church with the use of peyote, or in the UDV or Santo Daime, I mean, ayahuasca does work in some syncretic Christian form, right? And let's start with our earliest evidence from the Stone Age and the Bronze Age. Here's the big question. Well, wonderful. This discussion on Febrary 1, 2021, between CSWR Director Charles Stang and Brian Muraresku about his new book, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name,a groundbreaking dive into the role of psychedelics in the ancient Mediterranean world. So I present this as proof of concept, and I heavily rely on the Gospel of John and the data from Italy because that's what was there. And there were moments when the sunlight would just break through. And again, it survives, I think, because of that state support for the better part of 2,000 years. You know, it's an atheist using theological language to describe what happened to her. OK. Now let's pan back because, we have-- I want to wrap up my interrogation of you, which I've been pressing you, but I feel as if perhaps people joining me think I'm hostile to this hypothesis. pagan continuity hypothesis - diamondamotel.com It's really quite simple, Charlie. #649: Rick Rubin, Legendary Music Producer The Creative Act Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving CHARLES STANG: All right. So I see-- you're moving back and forth between these two. What does God mean? So there's a whole slew of sites I want to test there. What I see is data that's been largely neglected, and I think what serves this as a discipline is just that. But the point being, if the Dionysian wine was psychedelic-- which I know is a big if-- I think the more important thing to show here in this pagan continuity hypothesis is that it's at least plausible that the earliest Christians would have at the very least read the Gospel of John and interpreted that paleo-Christian Eucharistic wine, in some communities, as a kind of Dionysian wine. 18.3C: Continuity Theory - Social Sci LibreTexts CHARLES STANG: Brian, I wonder if you could end by reflecting on the meaning of dying before you die. So when you take a step back, as you well know, there was a Hellenic presence all over the ancient Mediterranean. If we're being honest with ourselves, when you've drunk-- and I've drunk that wine-- I didn't necessarily feel that I'd become one with Jesus. Read more 37 people found this helpful Helpful Report abuse Tfsiebs So much research! Correcting Key Points in Muraresku, The Immortality Key Now, I've never done them myself, but I have talked to many, many people who've had experience with psychedelics. CHARLES STANG: Yeah. BRIAN MURARESKU:: It's a simple formula, Charlie. When Irenaeus is talking about [SPEAKING GREEK], love potions, again, we have no idea what the hell he's talking about. Not because it's not there, because it hasn't been tested. So I think it's really interesting details here worth following up on. So there's lots of interesting details here that filter through. And the one thing that unites both of those worlds in this research called the pagan continuity hypothesis, the one thing we can bet on is the sacred language of Greek. CHARLES STANG: So in some sense, you're feeling almost envy for the experiences on psychedelics, which is to say you've never experienced the indwelling of Christ or the immediate knowledge of your immortality in the sacrament. Now that doesn't mean, as Brian was saying, that then suggests that that's the norm Eucharist. In the Classics world, there's a pagan continuity hypothesis with the very origin of Christianity, and many overt references to Greek plays in the Gospel of John. But I want to ask you to reflect on the broader narrative that you're painting, because I've heard you speak in two ways about the significance of this work. But I mentioned that we've become friends because it is the prerogative of friends to ask hard questions. Now, Mithras is another one of these mystery religions. I have a deep interest in mysticism, and I've had mystical experiences, which I don't think are very relevant. And we had a great chat, a very spirited chat about the mysteries and the psychedelic hypothesis. What's significant about these features for our piecing together the ancient religion with no name? The Wanderer | Old English Poetry Project | Rutgers University The book was published by Saint Martin's Press in September 2020 and has generated a whirlwind of attention. Dogs, indicative of the Greek goddess Hecate, who, amongst other things was known as the [GREEK], the dog eater. 40:15 Witches, drugs, and the Catholic Church . I also sense another narrative in your book, and one you've flagged for us, maybe about 10 minutes ago, when you said that the book is a proof of concept. I mean, the honest answer is not much. Now, that is part of your kind of interest in democratizing mysticism, but it also, curiously, cuts out the very people who have been preserving this tradition for centuries, namely, on your own account, this sort of invisible or barely visible lineage of women. And so in some of these psychedelic trials, under the right conditions, I do see genuine religious experiences. So we move now into ancient history, but solidly into the historical record, however uneven that historical record is. An actual spiked wine. You want to field questions in both those categories? Up until that point I really had very little knowledge of psychedelics, personal or literary or otherwise. Continuity theory - Wikipedia Just from reading Dioscorides and reading all the different texts, the past 12 years have absolutely transformed the way I think about wine. This time, tonight I'll say that it's just not my time yet. There's a moment in the book where you are excited about some hard evidence. It was it was barley, water, and something else. I wish the church fathers were better botanists and would rail against the specific pharmacopeia. The mysteries of Dionysus, a bit weirder, a bit more off the grid. And the big question is, what is this thing doing there in the middle of nowhere? . Kanye West (Ye) storms off Timcast IRL show after Tim Pool pushes back Rachel Peterson, who's well known to Brian and who's taken a lead in designing the series. CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF WORLD RELIGIONS, Harvard Divinity School42 Francis Avenue, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138 617.495.4495, my.hds |Harvard Divinity School |Harvard University |Privacy |Accessibility |Digital Accessibility | Trademark Notice |Reporting Copyright Infringements. But I think there's a decent scientific foothold to begin that work. So welcome to the fourth event in our yearlong series on psychedelics and the future of religion, co-sponsored by the Esalen Institute, the Riverstyx Foundation, and the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines. I just sense a great deal of structure and thoughtfulness going into this experience. That's just everlasting. Thank you, sir. There is evidence that has been either overlooked or perhaps intentionally suppressed. BRIAN MURARESKU: That's a good question. So when Hippolytus is calling out the Marcosians, and specifically women, consecrating this alternative Eucharist in their alternative proto-mass, he uses the Greek word-- and we've talked about this before-- but he uses the Greek word [SPEAKING GREEK] seven times in a row, by the way, without specifying which drugs he's referring to. And considering the common background of modern religions (the Pagan Continuity hypothesis), any religious group who thinks they are chosen or correct are promoting a simplistic and ignorant view of our past. And I think there are so many sites and excavations and so many chalices that remain to be tested. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact We don't have to look very hard to find that. 32:57 Ancient languages and Brian's education . Lots of Greek artifacts, lots of Greek signifiers. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. I took this to Greg [? There's evidence of the mysteries of Dionysus before, during, and after the life of Jesus, it's worth pointing out. Then what was the Gospel of John, how did it interpret the Eucharist and market it, and so on. And it seems to me that if any of this is right, that whatever was happening in ancient Greece was a transformative experience for which a lot of thought and preparation went into. Administration and supervision endeavors and with strong knowledge in: Online teaching and learning methods, Methods for Teaching Mathematics and Technology Integration for K-12 and College . I know that that's a loaded phrase. I think psychedelics are just one piece of the puzzle. I mean, I asked lots of big questions in the book, and I fully acknowledge that. So it is already happening. CHARLES STANG: So it may be worth mentioning, for those who are attending who haven't read the book, that you asked, who I can't remember her name, the woman who is in charge of the Eleusis site, whether some of the ritual vessels could be tested, only to discover-- tested for the remains of whatever they held, only to learn that those vessels had been cleaned and that no more vessels were going to be unearthed. What does that have to do with Christianity? There's all kinds of reasons I haven't done it. I go out of my way, in both parts of the book, which, it's divided into the history of beer and the history of wine, essentially. Who were the Saints? Not because they just found that altar. Part 1 Brian C. Muraresku: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and the Hallucinogenic Origins of Religion - Feb 22, 2023 let's take up your invitation and move from Dionysus to early Christianity. 474, ?] I would have been happy to find a spiked wine anywhere. And there were probably other Eleusises like that to the east. That's our next event, and will be at least two more events to follow. It's funny to see that some of the first basilicas outside Rome are popping up here, and in and around Pompeii. But this clearly involved some kind of technical know-how and the ability to concoct these things that, in order to keep them safe and efficacious, would not have been very widespread, I don't think. And even in the New Testament, you'll see wine spiked with myrrh, for example, that's served to Jesus at his crucifixion. That event is already up on our website and open for registration. But it just happens to show up at the right place at the right time, when the earliest Christians could have availed themselves of this kind of sacrament. That is about the future rather than the ancient history. Hard archaeobotanical, archaeochemical data, I haven't seen it. OK-- maybe one of those ancient beers. There's a good number of questions that are very curious why you are insisting on remaining a psychedelic virgin. It still leaves an even bigger if, Dr. Stang, is which one is psychedelic? He dared to ask this very question before the hypothesis that this Eleusinian sacrament was indeed a psychedelic, and am I right that it was Ruck's hypothesis that set you down this path all those many years ago at Brown? You take a board corporate finance attorney, you add in lots of childhood hours watching Indiana Jones, lots of law school hours reading Dan Brown, you put it all together and out pops The Immortality Key. difficult to arrive at any conclusive hypothesis. The Immortality Key - David Bookstaber BRIAN MURARESKU: We can dip from both pies, Dr. Stang. So the closer we get to the modern period, we're starting to find beer, wine mixed with interesting things.